[Dune-devel] Python/Build system meeting: Input wanted

[Christoph Grüninger]

Hi all,

it is really sad, that Andreas received just two answers on this list!
Given how heated the discussion at the last Dune developer meeting was
regarding stability and the importance of an always working Dune master
with Python support, I am confused by the lack of ansers. I assume some
allignment was done off-list.

Nevertheless, I call for your opinion on this topic, regardless if you
are a Dune core developer, a downstream module developer (like OPM,
DuMuX, Kaskade 7, etc.), or any other kind of a Dune user! If you don't
express your needs, we cannot consider them.

Bye
Christoph


Am 26.05.21 um 10:46 schrieb Dedner, Andreas:
> Hi,
> I would like to discuss how to proceed with the next release and the new
> Python bindings.
> Perhaps we need another developer meeting?
> 
> I see a few options:
> (a) We release 2.8 with the current master (I would like to do this
> really quickly if that is the decision taken).
>       After the release, the new python approach is merged.
> (b) We merge these branches now. Since this is a more significant change
> we would then wait for a few month
>       until releasing 2.8, i.e., end of the year.
> (c) We decide not to merge this at all - or someone suggest some major
> modifications.
> 
> In all three cases there is a further question: should the Python
> bindings be turned on by default?
> 
> I've already got the first email from Gitlab that in one of the modules
> the branch can't be merged anymore - with 10 modules with a
> corresponding MR this could become painful quite soon, so I would
> appreciate not to have to wait for too long for a decision (or at least
> to know which parts are contentious).
> 
> I'm happy to meet up with anyone interested during the next weeks for
> example - let me know if that would be helpful. Otherwise, discussions
> on any of the details of the changes should be done in
> https://gitlab.dune-project.org/core/dune-common/-/merge_requests/960
> <https://gitlab.dune-project.org/core/dune-common/-/merge_requests/960>
> That MR also contains an explanation of what is done - if something is
> unclear let me know.
> 
> Greetings
> Andreas
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Dedner, Andreas <A.S.Dedner at warwick.ac.uk>
> *Sent:* 05 May 2021 12:37
> *To:* dune-devel at lists.dune-project.org <dune-devel at lists.dune-project.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Dune-devel] Python/Build system meeting: Input wanted
>  
> Dear developers.
> 
> This is a follow up from an email from Dominic (on 05/02).
> Following the discussion, we had on the Python bindings and the build
> internal virtual environment,
> Dominic started work on making the changes along the lines of what we
> discussed.
> Over the last week I've made some changes to get packaging and some
> other thngs up and running again based on these changes.
> The main merge request
> https://gitlab.dune-project.org/core/dune-common/-/merge_requests/960
> <https://gitlab.dune-project.org/core/dune-common/-/merge_requests/960>
> contains hopefully useful information on the changes and some of the
> consequences.
> I would suggest having a discussion on the changes there. There other
> core modules (and some others) have companion MRs (still marked WIP).
> Best
> Andreas
> 
> PS: At the time we asked everyone interested to summarize their use
> cases for combining Dune and Python.
> I just went through that list again and think everything is addressed:
> 
> Adrian:  can use pip install (and even combine with own source module)
> Babara:  will now get an internal dune-env installed which she might not
> want
>          Can disable by disabling the cmake lookup of Python but that is
>          perhaps not obvious to her - perhaps give her an easy flag to set?
> Clara:   should be mostly fine - differences are documented.
>          But I guess there are different viewpoints on this
> Dominic: should be happy since internal venv is now on by default
> Andreas: works fine for me
> Linus:   Can't say for sure but hope he's happy?
> Robert:  A bit like Babara, i.e., might get an internal venv he doesn't use
> Oliver:  Embedded is still a bit of an issue which is mostly a venv problem
>          1. An external venv is used: then everything should be fine
>          2. the internal venv is used: make tests will be fine but calling
>             a C++ code directly will fail since the venv interpreter is not
>             used and the dune packages are not found. Needs to run
>             build-dir/run-in-env ./test
>          This is an issue with venv/embedded that has been discussed on
> the venv
>          mailing lists but never fixed
> Christian: These issues are a bit separate from these changes and need to
>          be discussed separately, I think. Some of the things mentioned
> should
>          work already I believe.
>          At least I hope that current changes don't make things worse.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Dune-devel <dune-devel-bounces at lists.dune-project.org> on behalf
> of Dominic Kempf <dominic.r.kempf at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 05 February 2021 16:15
> *To:* dune-devel at lists.dune-project.org <dune-devel at lists.dune-project.org>
> *Subject:* [Dune-devel] Python/Build system meeting: Input wanted
>  
> Dear developers,
> 
> we had a small meeting today that emerged from recent discussions on
> Gitlab issues + MRs to get an overview of the Python landscape in Dune.
> Participants were Andreas, Robert, Simon, Carsten, Samuel and myself. I
> think we made some progress, but we want to build on everybody's
> feedback to continue.
> 
> We would like to collect a list of use cases formulated as fictional or
> non-fictional user profiles. Just add yours to the list:
> https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/Cdg8eTGASWgdQetoM06emmp7/
> <https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/Cdg8eTGASWgdQetoM06emmp7/>
> This list will serve as the basis of discussion to converge to a
> technical solution that accommodates the needs of as many users as
> possible and allows a consensus to enable the Python bindings feature by
> default in the future.
> 
> Best,
> Dominic
> 
> 
> 
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> Dune-devel at lists.dune-project.org
> https://lists.dune-project.org/mailman/listinfo/dune-devel
> 

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