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<p>Hi Andreas,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I'm also in favor of a). The python bindings are clearly a great
thing. In order to thoroughly test it by a large community it
needs to be enabled by default. Although it has improved a lot
since our last meeting, I expect some corner cases to break.
Fixing these will probably take time. Releasing now would allow to
have an up-to-date stable release before we introduce these
possibly breaking changes. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I'm also waiting for a stable release before I start including
other changes (cmake related). These are always a bit related to
the python bindings because you also need cmake for the setup and
you have written several cmake extensions. This needs to be
aligned to the other cmake changes. I think merging both things in
the same release cycle (step by step) and fixing incompatibilities
by these two independent developments would also need time and is
better done after a stable 2.8 release.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>So, in my opinion, we need to start now listing what needs to be
done for a release that is independent of the python bindings
topic so that we can start the release procedure soon. I think,
Christoph has already listed a few topics that needed to be fixed
before 2.8, but some/most of these points are already finished.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Best wishes,<br>
Simon<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 26.05.21 um 10:46 schrieb Dedner,
Andreas:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:PR3PR01MB80976F5F76901E64C93953009A2F9@PR3PR01MB8097.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com">
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi,</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I would like to discuss how to proceed with the next release and
the new Python bindings.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Perhaps we need another developer meeting?<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I see a few options:</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
(a) We release 2.8 with the current master (I would like to do
this really quickly if that is the decision taken).<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
After the release, the new python approach is merged.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
(b) We merge these branches now. Since this is a more
significant change we would then wait for a few month</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
until releasing 2.8, i.e., end of the year.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
(c) We decide not to merge this at all - or someone suggest some
major modifications.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
In all three cases there is a further question: should the
Python bindings be turned on by default?</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I've already got the first email from Gitlab that in one of the
modules the branch can't be merged anymore - with 10 modules
with a corresponding MR this could become painful quite soon, so
I would appreciate not to have to wait for too long for a
decision (or at least to know which parts are contentious).<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I'm happy to meet up with anyone interested during the next
weeks for example - let me know if that would be helpful.
Otherwise, discussions on any of the details of the changes
should be done in</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<a
href="https://gitlab.dune-project.org/core/dune-common/-/merge_requests/960"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://gitlab.dune-project.org/core/dune-common/-/merge_requests/960</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
That MR also contains an explanation of what is done - if
something is unclear let me know.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Greetings<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Andreas<br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Dedner, Andreas <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:A.S.Dedner@warwick.ac.uk"><A.S.Dedner@warwick.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 May 2021 12:37<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org">dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org"><dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Dune-devel] Python/Build system meeting:
Input wanted</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Dear developers.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This is a follow up from an email from Dominic (on 05/02).<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Following the discussion, we had on the Python bindings and
the build internal virtual environment,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Dominic started work on making the changes along the lines of
what we discussed.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Over the last week I've made some changes to get packaging and
some other thngs up and running again based on these changes.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The main merge request<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<a
href="https://gitlab.dune-project.org/core/dune-common/-/merge_requests/960"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://gitlab.dune-project.org/core/dune-common/-/merge_requests/960</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
contains hopefully useful information on the changes and some
of the consequences.
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I would suggest having a discussion on the changes there.
There other core modules (and some others) have companion MRs
(still marked WIP).</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Andreas<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
PS: At the time we asked everyone interested to summarize
their use cases for combining Dune and Python.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I just went through that list again and think everything is
addressed:</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="font-family:monospace"><span
style="color:#000000; background-color:#ffffff">Adrian:
can use pip install (and even combine with own source
module)</span><br>
Babara: will now get an internal dune-env installed which
she might not want <br>
Can disable by disabling the cmake lookup of Python
but that is <br>
perhaps not obvious to her - perhaps give her an
easy flag to set? <br>
Clara: should be mostly fine - differences are documented.
<br>
But I guess there are different viewpoints on this
<br>
Dominic: should be happy since internal venv is now on by
default <br>
Andreas: works fine for me <br>
Linus: Can't say for sure but hope he's happy? <br>
Robert: A bit like Babara, i.e., might get an internal venv
he doesn't use <br>
Oliver: Embedded is still a bit of an issue which is mostly
a venv problem <br>
1. An external venv is used: then everything should
be fine <br>
2. the internal venv is used: make tests will be
fine but calling <br>
a C++ code directly will fail since the venv
interpreter is not <br>
used and the dune packages are not found. Needs
to run <br>
build-dir/run-in-env ./test <br>
This is an issue with venv/embedded that has been
discussed on the venv</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="font-family:monospace"> mailing lists but
never fixed <br>
Christian: These issues are a bit separate from these
changes and need to <br>
be discussed separately, I think. Some of the
things mentioned should <br>
work already I believe. <br>
At least I hope that current changes don't make
things worse. <br>
</span></div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Dune-devel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dune-devel-bounces@lists.dune-project.org"><dune-devel-bounces@lists.dune-project.org></a>
on behalf of Dominic Kempf <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dominic.r.kempf@gmail.com"><dominic.r.kempf@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 February 2021 16:15<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org">dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org"><dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Dune-devel] Python/Build system meeting:
Input wanted</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear developers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>we had a small meeting today that emerged from recent
discussions on Gitlab issues + MRs to get an overview of
the Python landscape in Dune. Participants were Andreas,
Robert, Simon, Carsten, Samuel and myself. I think we made
some progress, but we want to build on everybody's
feedback to continue.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We would like to collect a list of use cases formulated
as fictional or non-fictional user profiles. Just add
yours to the list:</div>
<div><a
href="https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/Cdg8eTGASWgdQetoM06emmp7/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/Cdg8eTGASWgdQetoM06emmp7/</a></div>
<div>This list will serve as the basis of discussion to
converge to a technical solution that accommodates the
needs of as many users as possible and allows a consensus
to enable the Python bindings feature by default in the
future.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Dominic<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Dune-devel mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org">Dune-devel@lists.dune-project.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.dune-project.org/mailman/listinfo/dune-devel">https://lists.dune-project.org/mailman/listinfo/dune-devel</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dr. Simon Praetorius
Technische Universität Dresden
Institute of Scientific Computing
phone: +49 351 463-34432
mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:simon.praetorius@tu-dresden.de">simon.praetorius@tu-dresden.de</a>
web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tu-dresden.de/mn/math/wir/das-institut/beschaeftigte/simon-praetorius">https://tu-dresden.de/mn/math/wir/das-institut/beschaeftigte/simon-praetorius</a></pre>
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